I was just on a guided bonefish trip and watched one of the guides making beautiful casts of about 115 feet (all the line plus about 15 feet of backing) with a $50 Pflueger fly rod. It made me question whether my investment in Sage, Scott, and Powell rods was worthwhile. What do you think?

IMo, it depends. I've used a 2 pc Wright-McGill since 1963 I bought as a kid. Serviceable and have gotten may years of enjoyment out of it. Just bought a Scott thats longer and much more sensitive. Was it worth it to get a new rod? Well, both have their applications; the W-M is shorter and easier to deal with when trudging through brush or on small streams vs. the action of the Scott.

Then theres the simple concept of sometimes one just has to treat oneself occasionally...

D.

Hi Rory...

The only relevent opinion is the one of the buyer/user. What do YOU think of your investments?

I have two rods that cost me $50 brand new and also... er... some... rods that cost almost ten times that much. I like 'em all and don't think about how much they cost. My casting is about the same with any of them anyway. Only way I could throw 115 ft is over a cliff. But Lefty Kreh could probably toss that far with any rod I have.
Bottom line for me is not how much it cost but whether I like it or not. What anyone else thinks of my investment doesn't interest me in the slightest. And what I, or anyone else, thinks of your investment has nothing to do with anything.
If someone criticizes you for fishing rods that are "too expensive" or "too cheap", all they're doing is displaying their own highly over-rated opinion of themselves, and nothing more.

Just my 2 cents wurff.

Best,
5/0

IMO high end rods are worth it only if they offer better performance. With the advent of rods like TFO (see my post previously in response to some unanswered allegations about the performance of TFO rods), I find it less and less desirable to spend $700+ on a fly rod. The high end rods offer nicer fit and finish (I just got a Powell Tiburon II 8 wt at a fly show with reel, line and backing for $349 and IMHO it outcast an 8wt Xi2 and it's beautifully finished) but I'm mainly interested in performance. When I buy a rod I test cast around a dozen of the cream of the crop in that particular category and pick the rod I think performs the best. I buy a rod strictly based on performance regardless of price but in general the more expensive rods are more nicely finished. Pride of ownership can come into play here too but since typically I refresh my rods on a 3-5 year cycle (i.e. every 3-5 years a new enough technology comes out that I retire a particular weight rod and don't use it anymore) I don't care that much about my rods as far as pride of ownership...I care a lot more about spending more money on my reels which I think, for the money, will last a lot longer than my rods. My rods after 3-5 years are almost a throwaway item (I typically keep them as spares for trips and for my friends/family).

5/0 said it as good as it can be said. I agree completely.
Best,
Steve

I'll also concur what 5/0 stated! It doesn't get any better than that.

Rorymaren,

I have run the gamut of fly fishing gear from high end to low end - this is how I would rate it all: (assumes you are going to have one, the choice being between high end and low end)

1) Brains (i.e. knowledge of the sport, aquatic food, reading water, presentation, etc)

2) Contents of your fly box - quality and selection

3) Line/Leader/Tippet - a good one makes a big difference

4) Wading Clothing - particularly boots (I know some will disagree since they don't use this item to fish)

5) Polarized Glasses -

6)Vest, Chest Pack, Fanny Pack -

7)Rod -

8)Reel - troutster so I usually strip the fish in

9)Net - don't like to remove the critters from the water so really don't need one

I guess a high end rod doesn't really matter much... just don't ask me how many I have!

CG

Rory,

When you buy a high end rod, you're usually getting 'something' for the money. For the most part you're paying for performance, research, advertising, quality of components, fit and finish, warranty, a name, and more. You don't always get all of those, and those factors might not be important to you. This is true across manufacturers and within a manufacturer.

For instance, look at the Legend Ultra versus the legend Elite. The elite has better nickel silver components (or better aluminum on appropriate models) than the ultra. The finish is a little 'nicer' as well (I concede that finish niceness is in the eye of the beholder). The cork quality is better and the graphite is a little more crisp. Is it worth an extra $150 in the rod? Not to me because I prefer the action of the Ultra over the elite. I just wish they had a better color than the spruce matte green. I build my own so components aren't an issue here.

Also, next time you get a chance, compare the overall quality of the rods between a high end and a lower end in the shop. You look at the epoxy and thread work on a Sage, T&T, Scott, etc and it is as good as you can expect from a mass produced rod. Then look at a $100 St Croix Premier, your $50 pfleuger, or even a $200 TFO. The epoxy will be less even, oftentimes either footballing or showing thread ridges. Notice that on the lower end rods the thread will be heavier (thicker) so it wraps faster and easier. Often they will use NCP thread so that any blotchy adsorption into the threads doesn't show. TFO doesn't even wrap their female ferrules on the new professional series rods. I questioned them about it and they say that they have a reinforcing process on them right now, but I'm not buying it. They wrapped the male ferrules (which don't need to be wrapped) but not the female ferrules. Also, they put finish on the female ferrules even though they didn't wrap them. I think someone misunderstood the instructions/diagrams when they were sent overseas. They still wrap the female ferrules (and not the males) on the 6 wt and under. I'd like to see what happens when a nice sized albie takes off against someone's unwrapped TFO 10 wt. I can guess which ferrule is going to break first.

I digress.

If you are a good caster you can make about any rod cast well with the right line. If you are a poor caster it doesn't matter what rod you have until you learn what you are doing. For most of the people in the middle though, a better rod can have a marked increase. We'll assume the person is using the same action, just getting a more crisp rod. If you jump from a St Croix Avid to a Sage SLT the rod is going to be a lot lighter overall, a lot lighter in the hand, and more lively to fish. Once you fish a higher end rod and go back to a 'lower end' rod you really notice the difference.

If you go through a bunch of rods, resale value might be important to you. Higher name rods hold their value better than lower end rods do.

In the end, you have to decide what is important to YOU first and foremost. Then cast a bunch of rods and see what fits you best. Only you can make you happy ("Nobody knows me better than me?").

Thanks,
Casts

Don't forget, one of the hidden benefits of the Elite is their use of a graphite scrim. Even Sage has seen the light on that for their high-end rods.

Your example of the guide casting a $50 rod 115' should tell us its not the rod but the operator.

For the most part you get what you pay for. In any of the lower end rods, irregardless of manufacturer, there are differences. Whether they are significant for you is for you to determine based upon your need and your wallet.

I have the highest end rod of one of the very popular imported low priced rods. I love the action and admit it is my "go to rod" for fishing for small blues and weakies off the beach. However; the finish is irregular and I can see the edges of the last layer wrap on the blank! The reel seat looks great; black anodized aluminum; but, the material does not have sufficient strength to keep the threads from becoming easily damaged. So, while it casts OK; the quality of components and the fit and finish are just not the same. This rod is 2 years old and has already been replaced once under warranty.

If I lay that rod against my hubby's Sage RPLXi in the same size even more differences become apparent. His reel seat, after more than 5 years of heavy saltwater use, is unscathed and has never locked up on the reel foot. There is no corrosion around the guides and no voids behind the guides where salt or moisture could enter. The quality components over the long haul has proved to be a better investment.

So, I keep fishing my imported rod and looking for its replacement. If I had bought better to start with I would not be shopping now.

Hi,
I agree you get what you pay for.
Oh ya what about most of the top end rods say MADE in U.S.A right on the blank!
At least that should stand for something. Shop around you don't have to pay sticker price.
jmho
Bob

To me, the only relevant question is, "Does it (rod, etc.) do what I want it to do?"
If the answer is "no," then I start with looking first at the operator (me), not the gear.

"How I can improve my technique? Is there something new I can learn/try?"
I find that 9 times out of ten, this is where the solution lies, not in plunking down $600 for a new rod. I purchased an Orvis Clearwater recently, which is not an expensive rod by todays standards by any means, and it does everything I would expect it to, and is very well made, so why spend more?

Also good to keep in mind that technology evolves much faster than fish do - an inexpensive to mid-range rod bought today is still probably using what was cutting-edge technology 5 - 10 years ago, and the fish haven't changed all that much in that time.

Cast by fly,i will disagree on one thing said,T&T is not
a mass produced rod,more to the extent a custom
than a mass produced rod,thats why i like em
so much!The quality in componants,blanks,attention
to detail is much higher than a lesser rod,does it matter
to the fish,no,but it does matter to me and i have to
enjoy my money some way!,don't want it put in a
high dollar casket to go in the ground!

Are high-end rods really worth it?

With all due respect, if you don’t know the answer to that question, then the answer is a definite, NO! I seriously do not think that anyone is ready to purchase a Winston, Sage, Scott—or any other top-of-the-line rod until they know the answer to the question you have posed..

If you were ready to buy one, you wouldn’t have to ask anyone if they are really worth it or not. You would already know the answer to that question, because you would have already spent a considerable amount of time browsing through the catalogs and the tackle shops, and you would have taken the time—weeks, perhaps even months—on numerous occasions to cast several rods in that category. And by now you would have developed an insatiable, almost uncontrollable desire to have one particular rod, and no other.

You would have found yourself thinking about this rod the very last thing at night before you fall asleep, and it would be the first thing on your mind when you wake up in the morning. You would have gone though the various rod catalogs countless times, savoring every word that was mentioned about that one particular rod. You would find yourself writing “Winston,” “Sage,” “Scott,” or some other rod name on your desk note pad, on the margin of the newspaper, and even on the roll of toilet paper while you are “resting.”

You would, by now, be able to explain to your wife or best fishing companion, or anyone else who would lend a listening ear, exactly why you “must” have that particular rod and none other. In fact, you could probably write a 500 word essay on the virtues of why you “need” that one rod over all the others in all the shops and catalogs in the world.

In short, you would be able to justify to anyone who asked, “Why in the world would you spend $600 on a new rod, when your old one looks as good as new? …and you can cast the entire line with it, including some of the backing.”

Until and unless you arrive at that well-determined, unmistakable point in time and space, I suggest that you be satisfied with your current rod, and enjoy your exceptional ability to use it (few anglers can cast that far!).

Now, in all seriousness, I would never recommend that anyone spend that kind of money on a new fly rod, simply because you have been thinking about making the next step up in price. Wait until that irresistible passion strikes you, and then make your move for that new rod. Only then will you receive that wonderful satisfaction of having the rod of your dreams.

Kind regards,

Emerger

I belonged to a flyfishing club made up of bunch of guys, avid fly fishermen, who could care less about a fine rod. My stuff is pretty good, but it was never ever mentioned. The speaker at the last meeting I attended was billed as the number one bass fly fisherman in Florida. He showed slides, presented a great program to loud applause. Afterwards, I had a look at his rods. They were of the quality of some of 5/0's. My point? If one is a good fly caster, fish will be caught. Rods do not catch fish. Or to put it another way, this explains why I'm such a lousy golfer. I have fine clubs, wear nice togs, and look great on the first tee until I swing, then.....................the worst duck hook imaginable. I can hunt quail quite well with an H & R shotgun, but I perfer, however, the Browning if you get what I mean.
Nimrod

When it comes to rod quality all too often anglers go cheap. My problem with guys buying $50 fly rods is this... I am an expert caster, and yes I can cast just about any rod, however I am not going to be able to cast nearly as well with a cheap rod. Im not saying you have to buy a $700 Sage, but what I am saying is there is a difference, why would someone who may not be a great caster handicap themselves to save a few dollars. I can cast a $50 dollar rod yes, bu no where near as well as I can cast amore expensive rod. If if hinders my cast, it sure as heck will hurt the average caster. Franky the average caster needs all the help he/she can get when it comes to casting.

Josh
http://www.rogueflyshop.com

I just took up fly fishing and like everybody is saying here. If you can cast well then the rod makes a difference but it's not as great of a difference as the casters skills. I went and spent $450 on my first rod and reel but could have spent $100. I tried many rods at a local flyshop and I did see a difference but it wasn't so significant that I truly could justify spending more. I even tried some of the $700 - $1000 rods but the increase in performance with me just started was not noticable. I decided to buy a Orvis 9.5 tip flex rod that seemed to feel nice to me. I did this because it was the weight I wanted, length I wanted and it was being cleared out for the new model. I paid $200 for the rod and it's retail was $325. The dealer told me that the line was probably more important then the rod so I spent more money on line and leader material then I did on my $120 Orvis reel. I do know that my friend paid about $200 for his rig with everything but I can outcast him by a long way and have far more accuracy. I figure the better line has a lot to do with this and that the better rod has less to do with this. I personally believe that when you get used to a rod you can cast it better anyway's. I'm now looking to get a lite action 7-8 ft 3 weight rod. My brother went to Basspro and bought a white river combo for $285 that's a CV2 7.9 foot 3 weight with a CV2 reel and it probably isn't as good as a nice sage or Winston rod but it was far superior to the cheaper $150 combos they had. It also felt very nice and casting was a breeze. Is there really a truly big difference in performance from a $300 to $600 rod that makes it worth while to spend the extra money when you could use the extra $300 for other gear? I'm new to Fly fishing but I have been fishing for a long time. I know that with spinning gear you don't want cheap stuff but you don't need $300 reels and $300 rods. I catch fish as good and with as much quality with my $80 shimano spinning reel and my $75 rod as the guys using more expensive gear.

I started fly fishing 14 years ago for bass and trout. My first rod was a Bass Pro White River 5 wt. Then I bought a Pflueger 7wt for bass. I had those rods for 6 years and caught tons of fish. But, in that time, those cheap rods instilled some very bad casting habits that I am still trying to unprogram in my casting arm. I bought a Sage DS2 and it helped me see the light, but my ex-girlfriends dog stepped on it and shattered it. This was in the days of the old warrantees. So, no more DS2, it was only 1 month old, RIP. I took a hiatus for 3 years while persuing other hobbies. When I got back into fly fishing, I bought Redington RS2's for my trout and bass rods. I kept the same old casting habits. What a mess I was making on the water. I eventually (2 years ago) started to fix my casting. What a humbling experience this was for me. I upgraded all my equipment to Legend Ultra's and Legend Elite's. This year, I started to finally get my casting down. I had a casting lesson 2 weeks ago to fix some distance problems. For 2 hours, I used my LE 6wt, fixed some problems, could pick up and lay down 60 feet, no problem, good loops, lotsa power. Then my instructor handed me a Sage XP to try. Instantly, 15 feet was added to my cast. I bought an XP right there. The reason for the switch to the XP is that I was finally feeling the rod and line work together. With the LE, all I was feeling was the heavy tip and a lot of bouncing. The swing weight on the XP was almost nothing compared to the LE.

Lessons learnt within my story:
1. Spend the extra money for quality equipment. It will help you in the long run while you are trying to learn how to cast and fish.
2. Get casting lessons a soon as you can from someone who will teach you to cast and feel, not just go through textbook motions. Dont spend years trying to undo bad habits, like I did.
3. Spend alot of time trying out rods and buy the one that feels good. Dont be worried about pissing off shop owners for always coming in and trying rods. I would rather buy the right one from them and have a good relationship, rather than buying one from salesman pressure, and then end up hating the store because you bought a rod you ended up not liking.
4. If I could go back and spend the right money for the right equipment, I would in a heartbeat. The past several years have been frustraing because of my ignorance towards equipment and their casting ability.
5. Listen to the experienced guys on this board, they have so much knowledge and insight to help you out with everything. I have learned so much from this board.

Thanks for listening, I hope this helps with this topic

There is a vast spectrum between the $50 rod and a top end Sage, Scott, etc. There are a plethora of excellent rods within this mid-range that will do everything that 90% of us need them to, and are built to last. Many of these also come with a respectable guarantee (the Orvis Clearwater, for example, comes with 25 yr. coverage). Sure, top of the line gear is nice, but the "right" equipment doesn't always mean the most expensive. The right equipment, in my mind, simply does what you want/need it to, and is durable. If you don't have a big budget to work with, take the money you save by buying a good mid-range outfit and attend a casting clinic, put it towards going on an extended fishing trip, etc. These things will arguably make you a better fisher, if not more so, than the most expensive rod in the shop.

I personally think you do need a good rod but probably not a high cost rod. I feel that the performance you get from today's $300 rods is about as good as what $800 rods were 5-7 years ago. I think more of the problems are due to cheap line and leader material.

I didnt suggest buying top of the line rods, just spend the few extra dollars for something quality. If $200 is your max, then buy the $200 rod that suits you best.
Do not save the $ and go for a cheaper rod, because its a better "deal".
My decision to buy what I did was based solely on where my skills are at today, where they could be in a year and what I could afford at that moment.

If a rod has everything I need going for it it's mine. Do your homework well before purchasing and the price won't even matter.
That said, after decades of making sure the basics were taken care of like education, housing etc. I now have the pleasure of being able to purchase rods solely because I WANT and not NEED them.
My needs run the range from performance to place of manufacture. It's nice to not really NEED another rod and to be able to be quite choosey in those that I do purchase.
With the choices and options in rods available to us now there is no reason to be discontent with any one aspect of your purchase.

To me 'quality' covers every aspect of the rods I buy. Quality of workmanship, function, warranty... you name it, it all matters to me!

I'm happy!

To each man his own.
Rod quality is important to me - nowadays. I well remember the day I brought my first Sage rod home. A magic, wonderful day. Six months later, I actually got to fish that rod for the first time...

However, I'm well aware that one man's "quality rod" is another man's garbage - at least if we're talking casting/fishing qualities. One of my fishing buddies is perfectly happy with his low end rods, and he should be! Maybe that's because his technique is less than perfect... or less than good... or less than... well, whatever. But he's got a helluva time fishing his cheap rods, and that's what it's all about, right? Btw, he doesn't cast one inch further when using my top-end rods, nor does he appreciate the difference in "fish fighting quality", and who am I to judge his experiences?

Go find a rod you like. If it's cheap - good. Fish it and be happy. If it's expensive - good. Fish it and be happy.

>>To each man his own.<<

True that! I was just stating what I look for in a rod.

That said, a good friend of mine cleans-clock at a local competition with a $45.00 rod! He gloats and I don't blame him!

deleted