Full Version: Spey
hello. i've been thinking about starting spey fishing sometime in the near future. i can do some basic spey casts with a single hand rod (snake roll, snap t, forward, single, and double spey casts) but what starting or basic equipment would you recommend. i'd probably be using this for steelhead, salmon and possibly big trout. i was thinking maybe like a 13'-14' 8 wt. i'd be fishing on medium to big sized rivers like the pm, muskegon, rogue, etc. in western michigan. i know that ll bean has their streamlight spey combos for $300 and up and if i don't like it i can always just send it back. the combo also comes with SA mastery spey line. also, what should i know about lines or what to use for what type of fishing? tell me what you think.
J-
I haven't seen many here with much spey experience, you'll get a lot more info at http://speypages.com/. Everyone I have talked to pretty much all agree that a good beginner rig is a moderate length 12' ish, moderate action rod, lined with the correct weight if not slightly heavy Rio Windcutter.
If you haven't already taken a class, it's a great way to get some specific feedback about what might fit your style, and an opportunity to try some different rods. The new LL Bean tapers are Rajeff designs, probably a darn decent option for the $... I just picked up a new Double L 6'6" 3wt for $195 that is a damn nice fishing tool, looks nice to.
I'm waiting to take a two day clinic with Jim Rusher in a few weeks before taking the dive on a new rig.
TL's~
I haven't seen many here with much spey experience, you'll get a lot more info at http://speypages.com/. Everyone I have talked to pretty much all agree that a good beginner rig is a moderate length 12' ish, moderate action rod, lined with the correct weight if not slightly heavy Rio Windcutter.
If you haven't already taken a class, it's a great way to get some specific feedback about what might fit your style, and an opportunity to try some different rods. The new LL Bean tapers are Rajeff designs, probably a darn decent option for the $... I just picked up a new Double L 6'6" 3wt for $195 that is a damn nice fishing tool, looks nice to.
I'm waiting to take a two day clinic with Jim Rusher in a few weeks before taking the dive on a new rig.
TL's~
A 14´ #8 or #9 rod can be a good starting point if you intend to use a (whole) spey line. Of course you can use a shorter rod but I prefer the longer one.
There are some different types of spey casts but the common trait to all of them is that you form a D- or V-loop behind (more than beside) you before you complete the cast. The size of this loop will combined with your ability to time the cast and doing just the right movements determine in essence the length of your cast. Naturally you have to use a balanced outfit that makes casting comfortable and stimulates you to practice often. A slightly longer rod will aid you in forming these D- or V-loops.
Taking a class may be a necessity to get started, watching some good DVD:s and practice often but not necessarily for long periods will very likely speed up the learning curve. The outcome of practicing may not be immediate but in my experience will produce a result that encourage you in the long run.
The tricky part in recommending an outfit to someone unknown to me is that I can´t possible tell what you will prefer. But as you know your own personality there may be a hint to what you will prefer in the long run. A person with a personality characterized by calmness and patience may (not inevitable though) prefer a slower action rod than a person that has some impatience in his or her mind.
Buying a used rod can be an alternative as your preferences may change once you have left the beginner´s level.
A medium action rod might suit most beginner but this isn´t for sure. There are some beginners that prefer a faster actioned rod because timing in their opinion is in fact easier if they don´t have to pause for so long when overhead casting for instance.
BTW a fast actioned rod can be casted in a rather slow way. Most traditional Spey rods have a somewhat deeper and slower action in contrast to two-handed rods intended for the Scandinavian style where shorter shooting heads are being used. Using this technique which can be regarded as a modified single spey cast you place only the leader and fly in the water beside you, the D-loop formed is behind you but shouldn´t actually land on the water.
Which technique is the best one? I say both :-) or I prefer to use both of them and
use my 14´and 15´rods to do both "styles". The shorter rods a 12´6" and a 13´are my "underhand" rods which is almost the same as the shooting head system described above.
My advice may seem rather odd at a first glance, but out of my own experience casting with many types of rods will as an end result make you a more proficient caster. This I learned from my first and probably best instructor. In this way you learn to feel the rods and cooperate with them and this is the key to success!
Of course I don´t expect anyone to buy a couple of rods in about the same length and AFTM class to begin with. It´s more of taking the opportunity to try the rods of other casters if you take to a class.
My own practice is based on some principles that may or may not apply to your own practicing.
+I practice often and feel the fun of it. Practicing in adverse conditions can make me appreciate those fine condition more.( Ice in the rings and a chilly hard wind isn´t nice but....)
+Being aware of what I do and the consequences of it is the single most important
factor for progress. Attention to my own thoughts and attitude is important.
Focusing on casting and just this is mandatory.
+ The best casts are made in an unconscious (?)(or subconscious) manner. May seem to contradict the above, but in my mind doesn´t .
+ The skill to analyze each and every cast may come with time. But sometimes
when the casts occur in a zen-like way I ignore analyzing them.
+ As I plan to do more teaching I have to practice to cast in some "faulty" ways.
+ When I use less force to cast and the casts has some beauty to them I take this
for progress.
+ There seems to be some sorts of plateau or a staircase for progress. Practicing
a lot may not lead to improvements until the time is ready. But then it´s very gratifying.
P.S. If I´ve lived in the US I would probably have taken a chance on this one.
But importing it to Sweden will double the price of it. :-(
I don´t say: "buy this"; but it can be an alternative.
http://www.sierratradingpost.com/p/91632,8...9;-4-Piece.html
There are some different types of spey casts but the common trait to all of them is that you form a D- or V-loop behind (more than beside) you before you complete the cast. The size of this loop will combined with your ability to time the cast and doing just the right movements determine in essence the length of your cast. Naturally you have to use a balanced outfit that makes casting comfortable and stimulates you to practice often. A slightly longer rod will aid you in forming these D- or V-loops.
Taking a class may be a necessity to get started, watching some good DVD:s and practice often but not necessarily for long periods will very likely speed up the learning curve. The outcome of practicing may not be immediate but in my experience will produce a result that encourage you in the long run.
The tricky part in recommending an outfit to someone unknown to me is that I can´t possible tell what you will prefer. But as you know your own personality there may be a hint to what you will prefer in the long run. A person with a personality characterized by calmness and patience may (not inevitable though) prefer a slower action rod than a person that has some impatience in his or her mind.
Buying a used rod can be an alternative as your preferences may change once you have left the beginner´s level.
A medium action rod might suit most beginner but this isn´t for sure. There are some beginners that prefer a faster actioned rod because timing in their opinion is in fact easier if they don´t have to pause for so long when overhead casting for instance.
BTW a fast actioned rod can be casted in a rather slow way. Most traditional Spey rods have a somewhat deeper and slower action in contrast to two-handed rods intended for the Scandinavian style where shorter shooting heads are being used. Using this technique which can be regarded as a modified single spey cast you place only the leader and fly in the water beside you, the D-loop formed is behind you but shouldn´t actually land on the water.
Which technique is the best one? I say both :-) or I prefer to use both of them and
use my 14´and 15´rods to do both "styles". The shorter rods a 12´6" and a 13´are my "underhand" rods which is almost the same as the shooting head system described above.
My advice may seem rather odd at a first glance, but out of my own experience casting with many types of rods will as an end result make you a more proficient caster. This I learned from my first and probably best instructor. In this way you learn to feel the rods and cooperate with them and this is the key to success!
Of course I don´t expect anyone to buy a couple of rods in about the same length and AFTM class to begin with. It´s more of taking the opportunity to try the rods of other casters if you take to a class.
My own practice is based on some principles that may or may not apply to your own practicing.
+I practice often and feel the fun of it. Practicing in adverse conditions can make me appreciate those fine condition more.( Ice in the rings and a chilly hard wind isn´t nice but....)
+Being aware of what I do and the consequences of it is the single most important
factor for progress. Attention to my own thoughts and attitude is important.
Focusing on casting and just this is mandatory.
+ The best casts are made in an unconscious (?)(or subconscious) manner. May seem to contradict the above, but in my mind doesn´t .
+ The skill to analyze each and every cast may come with time. But sometimes
when the casts occur in a zen-like way I ignore analyzing them.
+ As I plan to do more teaching I have to practice to cast in some "faulty" ways.
+ When I use less force to cast and the casts has some beauty to them I take this
for progress.
+ There seems to be some sorts of plateau or a staircase for progress. Practicing
a lot may not lead to improvements until the time is ready. But then it´s very gratifying.
P.S. If I´ve lived in the US I would probably have taken a chance on this one.
But importing it to Sweden will double the price of it. :-(
I don´t say: "buy this"; but it can be an alternative.
http://www.sierratradingpost.com/p/91632,8...9;-4-Piece.html
As a reader of (English) Trout&Salmon you can get this offer (I have delited most of the text for copyright reason). £100 is about the double in dollars I think, import duty outside EU, please do not ask me:
Trueflex Salmon fishing kit for just £99.99 +p&p!
SALMON FISHING CAN be a complicated and expensive sport but this salmon rod - ......13´or 15´you decide.
WYCHWOOD TRUEFLEX SALMON ROD
RRP £169.99..
OKUMA SIERRA REEL
RRP £49.99.
STILLWATER FLY-LINE BACKING
RRP £12.99.
SHARPE&co; FLOATING SPEYLINE
RRP £49.99.
SCIERRA BR AIDED LOOPS
Three floating salmon loops with braided sleeves for line sizes 8-11. RRP £1.99.
RRP: £284.95
You pay just £99.99!
A massive saving of £185!
Magnolias comment: the rod is on sale (£79.99) at this offer´s partner: Glaskow Angling Center. I have chosen not to give away the direct web address to this offer. The saving claimed above doesn´t seem to fit with the fact that the same outfit is offered in an ad from the Glaskow Angling Center where it´s offered "to everyone" at £ 129.99. Thus buying the magazine can save you £ 30 which is in fact twice this amount in dollars. All facts from the mag; Trout and Salmon March 2008 issue. Cross currency approx.1:2.005 today. I´ve no economical interests in
any commercial company related to fly fishing.
http://www.fishingmegastore.com/acatalog/O...ychwood_27.html
Trueflex Salmon fishing kit for just £99.99 +p&p!
SALMON FISHING CAN be a complicated and expensive sport but this salmon rod - ......13´or 15´you decide.
WYCHWOOD TRUEFLEX SALMON ROD
RRP £169.99..
OKUMA SIERRA REEL
RRP £49.99.
STILLWATER FLY-LINE BACKING
RRP £12.99.
SHARPE&co; FLOATING SPEYLINE
RRP £49.99.
SCIERRA BR AIDED LOOPS
Three floating salmon loops with braided sleeves for line sizes 8-11. RRP £1.99.
RRP: £284.95
You pay just £99.99!
A massive saving of £185!
Magnolias comment: the rod is on sale (£79.99) at this offer´s partner: Glaskow Angling Center. I have chosen not to give away the direct web address to this offer. The saving claimed above doesn´t seem to fit with the fact that the same outfit is offered in an ad from the Glaskow Angling Center where it´s offered "to everyone" at £ 129.99. Thus buying the magazine can save you £ 30 which is in fact twice this amount in dollars. All facts from the mag; Trout and Salmon March 2008 issue. Cross currency approx.1:2.005 today. I´ve no economical interests in
any commercial company related to fly fishing.
http://www.fishingmegastore.com/acatalog/O...ychwood_27.html
I read this tread today and yes; finding the right rod-line combination isn´t easy. With experience you will be more assured of what´s working for you.
http://www.mombu.com/fishing/fishing-equip...od-1211644.html
If I have not seen a person casting all I probably can say is "this combination works for me". Having seen someone cast may lead to a suggestion: this or that may be worth considering.
The most easy rod to cast for me was a Greys Greyflex Mk 2 13´ #8. But other casters may recommend something else.
In the spring of 2005 I participated in a two-handed rod test and I thought the above rod to be an easy casting rod and not only a beginner´s rod.
http://www.edgeflyfishing.com/tests/rods/t...05/twohand.html
(I am at the left and my name is misspelled should be Håkan Ståhl).
We liked a couple of rods and you may find them although the test is written in Swedish.
I still like the Greys rod and I have casted it since and even after becoming a better caster it is still good enough for me. The 14´ # 8/9 Winston BIIx has a bit more authority, and the CTS Affinity 13´# 9/10 feels a bit less forgiving but more awarding when timing etc is spot on.
http://www.mombu.com/fishing/fishing-equip...od-1211644.html
If I have not seen a person casting all I probably can say is "this combination works for me". Having seen someone cast may lead to a suggestion: this or that may be worth considering.
The most easy rod to cast for me was a Greys Greyflex Mk 2 13´ #8. But other casters may recommend something else.
In the spring of 2005 I participated in a two-handed rod test and I thought the above rod to be an easy casting rod and not only a beginner´s rod.
http://www.edgeflyfishing.com/tests/rods/t...05/twohand.html
(I am at the left and my name is misspelled should be Håkan Ståhl).
We liked a couple of rods and you may find them although the test is written in Swedish.
I still like the Greys rod and I have casted it since and even after becoming a better caster it is still good enough for me. The 14´ # 8/9 Winston BIIx has a bit more authority, and the CTS Affinity 13´# 9/10 feels a bit less forgiving but more awarding when timing etc is spot on.
taking the jump here... we got a special promotion from Sage, 66% below retail on premium products so I'm soon the proud new flogger of a 6126-4 Z-Axis and matching reel... do my two day clinic with Jim Rusher in two weeks... psyched! 
May add to the confusion about what spey casting eventually is! :-)
http://www.midcurrent.com/articles/gear/bie_speyrods.aspx
You don´t need to make a back cast he writes. I would say ; you make an underpowered back cast so a partition of the line (the head of a speyline) lands on the water. This partition together with the line still in the air form the D-loop or V-loop. In a side view the fly line forms the arc of the D and the rod the vertical part of it.
The length of the line lying in the water depends of the intended length of the cast but should never be longer than the length of the head.
In Scandinavian style; the underhand cast , only the leader and a small part of the fly line touch the water. Short heads are being used and you don´t have to cast in an aggressive way if you are a competent caster.
You can have a look at this Swedish pages (two) and just look at the drawings will probably make sense.
http://www.rackelhanen.se/swe/1024.htm
The second and third pictures from top:
http://www.tommye.se/imgbl.asp?Qimg=19&Qlangues=Sv
http://www.midcurrent.com/articles/gear/bie_speyrods.aspx
You don´t need to make a back cast he writes. I would say ; you make an underpowered back cast so a partition of the line (the head of a speyline) lands on the water. This partition together with the line still in the air form the D-loop or V-loop. In a side view the fly line forms the arc of the D and the rod the vertical part of it.
The length of the line lying in the water depends of the intended length of the cast but should never be longer than the length of the head.
In Scandinavian style; the underhand cast , only the leader and a small part of the fly line touch the water. Short heads are being used and you don´t have to cast in an aggressive way if you are a competent caster.
You can have a look at this Swedish pages (two) and just look at the drawings will probably make sense.
http://www.rackelhanen.se/swe/1024.htm
The second and third pictures from top:
http://www.tommye.se/imgbl.asp?Qimg=19&Qlangues=Sv
QUOTE(GRN @ Apr 23 2008, 12:40 AM) 
taking the jump here... we got a special promotion from Sage, 66% below retail on premium products so I'm soon the proud new flogger of a 6126-4 Z-Axis and matching reel... do my two day clinic with Jim Rusher in two weeks... psyched!
Hey Greg,
I'd be interested to hear about your clinic with Jim Rusher down at Sewall's Falls. I've heard his instructon is great,,,Hope you enjoy the new 2-hander,,, Good to see you at Dave's Grand Opening, quite a crowd!
cheers,
JP
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